Which Way Does Moroni Point?
Moroni in action
Most Mormon temples are topped with a statue of Moroni, a character from the Book of Mormon, blowing his trumpet. According to the story, Moroni was the sole survivor of his people in an apocalyptic battle. He escaped with the gold plates upon which he and his forebears had inscribed their history (in a form of Egyptian, for reasons that are never made clear). He buried them in upstate New York, and then appeared in a vision to Joseph Smith and showed him where the plates were.
And so he is immortalized atop the temples. Something of a cult phenomenon has arisen over the question of which way he’s pointing. Browsing through LDS forums, I’ve seen proposals that (1) he always points east toward the rising sun; (2) that he points toward Jackson County, Missouri, where the faithful believe Jesus will make his second coming; (3) that he points any random direction that the individual architect preferred; and even (4) that he is aligned in such a way so as not to interfere with local radio and TV broadcasts. Because, you know, audio waves from that trumpet might disrupt the EM spectrum.
Looking from behind, you get the right compass angle, but you can't see the trumpet.
So I propose a little experiment.
For each of you who lives or works near a Mormon temple, grab yourself a compass and see which way your local Moroni is pointing, and post it here on this forum. We’ll plot all the responses on a Google Map and will (Moroni willing) get to the bottom of this terribly important mystery.
There are a few important points to keep in mind:
- Moroni is only on Mormon temples, not the regular churches. The temples are quite a bit rarer.
- Any compass will do. If you’re lucky enough to have a pair of binoculars with a built-in compass, that’s probably easiest.
- To get the angle, you’ll need to look at Moroni from the front. This means you’ll have to take the reverse angle by either adding or subtracting 180.
- You will need to correct your sighting with the proper declination. Here’s a map that will tell you your declination (Sorry it’s US only; if you’re overseas you’ll need to figure it out for yourself). I’m in southern California, so I have to add 13 degrees to whatever my compass says to get the correct true heading.
- It’s not necessary to get the latitude and longtitude. Just say “Moroni on the temple in (whatever city) is pointing xxx degrees.” We can find that temple on Google Maps easily enough.
You need to look from the front to see exactly which direction he's pointing, so you'll need to add or subtract 180 to get the reverse angle.
So go to it, Skeptectives, and let’s crack this case!
PS – By the way, due to the curvature of the Earth, you can’t just plot vectors on a map — they won’t triangulate properly. If someone knows an easy way to do it correctly, please post it here.
PPS – If you already know where Moroni is pointing, don’t post it yet – let’s get some data and see where it leads us first.
comments (56)
The large Mormon Temple in Silver Spring has Moroni’s trumpet pointing east. Having seen it many times, I believed this to be true and a little google sleuthing seems to confirm it.
Photo of the spires of the mormon temple
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/6248058
Another view showing the direction of the trumpet
http://silverspringdailyphoto.com/2006/12/18/temple-2/
Sattelite view from Google maps to show orientation
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=mormon+temple+visitors+center+maryland&sll=39.015016,-77.07481&sspn=0.002963,0.004426&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=39.014007,-77.065562&spn=0.002843,0.004426&z=18
You need to get the lat/lon. Mainly so you can produce a “great circle” line. I don’t have the calculations on hand, but they are fairly easy (a few sin/cos calculations really). Google knows it. ;)
It’s pretty obvious from Google Maps and Google Earth that the trumpet on the Seattle Mormon Temple points due west.
And the Salt Lake City Temple points due east. From checking a few others, it looks like the trumpets face the same way as the front of the temple. Facts about the temples, including thier addresses, are available at:
http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/facts/
Happy hunting!
To follow up on my previous post, to get the heading in radians, where 1 is the source and 2 is the destination coordinates:
double tc = atan2(
sin(lon2-lon1)*cos(lat2),
cos(lat1)*sin(lat2)-sin(lat1)*cos(lat2)*cos(lon2-lon1)
);
Its a snippet of C that I use. Sometimes you get negative numbers, so:
if (tc < 0) tc += (3.1415 * 2);
Raleigh North Carolina Temple
574 Bryan Drive
Apex NC 27502
Moroni points 257 deg.s (WSW)
(Thanks to GGJ of Apex NC, a buddy who gladly ditched a staff meeting to make the measurement after my email request. He said he’s not sure what happened, but he now has two extra wives)
Actually, Moroni faces due East in SL, but the trumpet doesn’t. I don’t care to figure out the exact angle right now, but it’s slightly south, so it couldn’t be pointing at Missouri or Nauvoo (it would have to point slightly North for Nauvoo, and almost due East for Jackson County, because of the great circle trajectory).
I was going to go out looking tonight, but it seems the nearest temple is in Columbus. A bit far of a drive from Cleveland to kill an evening on unfortunately.
Google Earth doesn’t zoom in enough to see it, but Street View combined with Earth seems to indicate it’s pointing due East on the Columbus temple.
Link: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=3870+Gateway+Blvd+Columbus,+OH+43228-9747+United+States&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&split=0&gl=us&ei=EunUSajFO6LrlQfzldjKDA&ll=39.993909,-83.113168&spn=0.000304,0.00052&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=39.993698,-83.11297&panoid=mzsrzxXCrpmNEu7eC1_erQ&cbp=12,324.3215753253854,,0,5
Wow, this is rad, i have to check this out. I don’t know if there is a Mormon church near me though; a great thing
This is probably the only time in my life that I’ve ever wished I lived near a Mormon temple.
I know the one here in Orlando, Florida points eastward (took note of it after hearing the original Skeptoid podcast on the subject). How much eastward? I shall dust off my compass tonight and post tomorrow…
I don’t have a compass, but from its proximity to the N-S running I-5, it is pretty certain that the Moroni on the Mormon Temple in La Jolla, San Diego, CA is pointing due WNW.
Oops. I meant ENE (East northeast). Sorry.
Here is a link to the world map of LDS churches. There is a Google Earch .kml file on the site.
LDS Temples
Lets try that again.
LDS Temples
I know it’s not your main point, but I think you *can* draw vectors and represent their angles/bearings accurately on a flat map, if it is a conformal projection like the Mercator. On a projection like this, straight lines are lines of constant bearing–a feature that made the Mercator projection popular when it was first made available. That being said, Google Maps uses the Mercator projection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection
You guys are all wrong. Clearly the Moroni is not pointing to any one specific place, ’cause he’s…well a moron!
No, Moroni, the “i” makes all the difference. You know, without the i it’s just a Pod.
“Who can turn a cub, into a cube?
Who can turn a tub, into a tube?”
@tudza: damn, you beat me to it. I was going to ask if no one got the joke since 1834 – it’s a bit like “I, Robot” but messed up.
And of course, It’s not so hard to see it’s silent ‘e’.
I overheard another member of the church explaining to his kids that often repeated line, “Moroni always faces east” while we were on the grounds of the Nauvoo, Illinois temple. That temple is in Illinois and faces the Mississippi river. The building faces due west.
I just review some pictures we took and his trumpet is pointing to roughly NW. That doesn’t fit any of the theories and just points off into Iowa.
I’m surprised that none of the literature says he points to kolob.
Here in Oz, I have yet to see a Mormon temple with Moroni atop it. I live behind a Mormon church… do they have both churches and temples?
Uh, a little searching leads to some obvious answers. Not all of our temples have Moroni on them, and on the LA temple the direction specified was East. It’s most likely that people conflate the one specified direction with all statues facing the same direction.
http://tinyurl.com/cuhnsj
Based off some Google Mapping and image looking, I’m roughly estimating that the St. Louis, MO Moroni is aiming his trumpet at about 163 degrees SE.
Why do I think this emblem of Moroni is funny?
Link
A couple sources on the net will tell you this:
“The statue of the angel Moroni, which was installed on the Los Angeles California Temple to face southeast as the temple does, was later turned to face due east at the request of Church President David O. McKay.”
and this:
“Most Moroni statues adorning our temples point due east, however, the Seattle, Nauvoo, and Taipei Taiwan temples all have statues facing west. This is likely due to the orientation of their respective lots and/or the placement of their spires. While there is obviously no Church standard for Moroni’s easterly pointing direction, the symbolism is quite rich.”
It is obviously arbitrary then until some Mormon potentate decides it isn’t and sends up a crew on hazard pay to twist Moroni around. Do we really need to send out the amateur survey teams for something like this?
Mormon Temple in Oklahoma City, OK (technically in “Yukon”, but that’s pretty much in OKC) faces SE.
(Via google earth, and cross checking with detailed temple images I was able to see that since the trumpet points in the same direction as the main entrance I could find which direction the main entrace faced via google earth. It faces SE.) I’d drive the two hours to do more exact, but this suffices and my methods are given. Anyone with more exact methods for this location should be given precedence, obviously.
I’ll check on the Atlanta Temple, but I’m a 15 year Mormon and my husband is a 40 yr Mormon (neither of us is active)and we have never heard of any rules about which way Moroni is facing.
Did these guys really name their head angel Moron I? If so, how fitting.
I’ll have to check on the Winter Quarters Temple in N. Omaha, But lining it up with Google Maps and looking at a composite set of images has it pointing a heading of 105-115, or east southeast.
The correct answer of course is that he’s pointing straight to hell – just ask anyone from any other religion.
Why would people who claim to be skeptics bother with figuring this out? What does it matter? Brian Dunning says it and you hop to. How skeptical of you.
The La Jolla Temple’s points East Southeast. (Click on name to see Google map/photo.)
#30 SheridanCat….the answer is obvious…because it’s FUN!!!
@SheridanCat: It’s just fun – as Brian pointed out, even the LDS fora have many suggestions about a significance to which direction the trumpet points. The question of course is exactly as Brian has posted: which way does Moroni (or at least the trumpet) point. So getting reports from people in many places may (but is not guaranteed to) resolve the issue. At the very least the information can be used to reject a number of the suggested answers. That’s the sort of thinks skeptics do – ask themselves “is this true or is it BS”?
@Brian:
I’m pretty sure the USGS maintains a global calculator for magnetic declination. I haven’t used it in years, but the model is accessible from this website:
http://geomag.usgs.gov/models/
A bit of exoticism (for you Americans, for us the whole LDS thing is exotic). Madrid, Spain. Moroni points eastwards.
http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/madrid/gallery/images/madrid_lds_mormon_temple1.jpg
http://maps.google.es/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.400116,-3.631445&spn=0.000697,0.001207&t=h&z=20
I can’t go there at the moment, but according to photos and Google images, at the Mormon Temple in Kensington, MD (just outside Washington DC), Moroni’s trumpet appears to be pointing due east. I’ll have to confirm later.
Grrr… packed the compass, drove to the temple (it’s near work), went to my bag, and… no compass?!? How…? Wha…? I remember packing it!
My theory is Moroni himself must be pissed at this whole thing and somehow supernaturally confiscated it.
I’ll find where he’s hidden it and report back soon.
Moroni on Temple in Zollikofen Switzerland points east-southeast according to google earth and a picture found on the web. Moroni only got installed on this temple in 2005 although the temple was built in 1955.
When I was young I heard endless rumors about the significance of which way Moroni pointed. When I was about 14 or so, my grandparents, who had at that time visited every Mormon temple in North America, said most temple Moronois pointed slightly to the right (Moronoi’s right) of the temple’s front, so that if one was in front of the temple (and it had a Moronoi), Moronoi’s horn was easily recognizable from a distance.
(My apologies for adding another rumour to test, rather than actual data.)
obviously it points up joseph smith’s ass where he was pulled out of.
Checking Google Earth at Salt Lake City the trumpet is NOT facing exactly east. (40d46′13.51″N 111d53′28.34″W) It’s blurry but I triangulated the heading as approximately 112 degrees plus/minus 5 degrees. I checked other temples but couldn’t get a good read on the trumpets. I am in the process of making a spreadsheet to calculate the intersection of great circles and will send to Brian.
I finished the spreadsheet to calculate great circle intersections. Just enter two coordinate points and two headings. Output gives exact location of mutual trumpet pointage. Anyone who wants this can email me at cn2zv5oe@gmail.com.
Duh! Moroni always points toward teh stupid.
I thought everybody knew that.
On the one at Kensington Maryland, north of Wash DC, the trumpet is pointing due east, as near as I could tell by comparing my view from the Washington Beltway with the satellite view on Google Maps.
I have found the missing tablets! So if the trumpet at Salt Lake points at 115 degrees and the Moron atop the Kensington temple blows at 90 degrees, there is a mutual intersection off the coast of Brazil: (19d 8′ 26″S, 38d 17′ 59″W) The secret is out!
I find it amazing to think that, of all places, Jesus would plan to return to a town in the US.
Joseph Smith was born in the US and as many (many) people in that country he must have thought there was nothing else in the world…
I know the statute in Bellevue, Washington, is pointing West. Don’t need a compass for that either, as the statute points toward Seattle which is west of Bellevue.
Anibal: No more absurd than a Roman-era Jew thinking Jerusalem was the spiritual center of the world, or a 7th-century Arab merchant deciding Mecca was the holiest place.
Anibal: The Mormons seem to believe that Jackson County Missouri was the home of the Garden of Eden. No humans lived in Asia/Africa/Europe until after the flood.
Having been to Jackson County, I don’t see why anyone would consider it Edenic.
On the temple in Belmont MA, the trumpet points east, which is also the front of the building, and towards Boston…
Dennis
My compass is shaky, but the Moroni atop the temple outside of Orlando Florida (9000 Windy Ridge Rd, Windermere) is trumpeting SE, at 120 degrees.
The temple in Richland, WA is trumpeting SE at 167 degrees or so.
I think it’s great to be skeptical. You can learn a lot from questioning things. But the negative personal comments found on the site detract from any actual knowledge or insight gained. Maybe you feel it is more entertaining…but it comes off as immature and rude.
I teach critical thinking at a college. After identifying the question, you gather facts that support and debunk, analyze the probability against background information then form a conclusion. Has anyone thought of asking the church about Moroni? Symbolically, he is proclaiming “good news” and announcing the (future) return of Christ. Therefore, the direction is really rather unimportant. By the way, the “reformed Egyptian” in the Book of Mormon is a result of the years the Jews spent in Egypt which corrupted the language for some tribes, including Joseph’s descendents which are the ones who made the trek over here.
Okay, I am all about learning things through exploration, experimentation, etc. I have no problem with people wanting to know what direction Moroni points from the top of our temples.
But are comments about Moroni being a “moron” or that he faces to hell really necessary? Have any of you actually read the Book of Mormon or explored what the Latter-Day Saint religion really believes? If you did, you would find that we believe in love and charity and a continued relationship with our living and loving God. One of the prophets in our Book of Mormon even advocates an “experiment upon [his] words” (Alma 32:27) and invites mankind to try it for themselves. This Moroni you all seem so keep on mocking also encouraged readers to find out for themselves whether the Book of Mormon is true (Moroni 10:4).
If you don’t believe what I believe, that’s fine. We believe that all mankind should be allowed the priviledge to believe “how, where, or what they may” (Articles of Faith 1:11). But please, I beg of you, while you’re out there measuring and triangulating and hunting for your lost compass and all that, leave the mockery behind. To be skeptical is entirely unrelated to being disrespectful.