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	<title>Comments on: Take the Challenge:  Modern Patternicity in Ancient Wisdom</title>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-18353</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-18353</guid>
		<description>Tasdeeq, You said:

&quot;And He is (the One) Who produced you from a single cell, that you stay at a stage (for some time) and then move to the next. No doubt, We have clearly explained Our Laws for scholars. [6:98]&quot;

When I look up that passage, I see :(From:http://miraculousquran.blogspot.com/2009/08/surah-al-anaam-698-resting-place-and.html)

And He it is Who has brought you into being from a single soul, then there is (for you) a resting-place and a depository; indeed We have made plain the communications for a people who understand. [6-98]

Why do you use the word &quot;cell&quot; when it appears the original said &quot;soul&quot;?

I suspect there are more examples (&quot;Nuclear&quot; appears in the Koran? Or is that a more modern attempt at fitting current knowledge to an ancient text?).

Anyway, I think you have provided some excellent examples of what Dr. Shermer is talking about. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tasdeeq, You said:</p>
<p>&#8220;And He is (the One) Who produced you from a single cell, that you stay at a stage (for some time) and then move to the next. No doubt, We have clearly explained Our Laws for scholars. [6:98]&#8221;</p>
<p>When I look up that passage, I see :(From:http://miraculousquran.blogspot.com/2009/08/surah-al-anaam-698-resting-place-and.html)</p>
<p>And He it is Who has brought you into being from a single soul, then there is (for you) a resting-place and a depository; indeed We have made plain the communications for a people who understand. [6-98]</p>
<p>Why do you use the word &#8220;cell&#8221; when it appears the original said &#8220;soul&#8221;?</p>
<p>I suspect there are more examples (&#8220;Nuclear&#8221; appears in the Koran? Or is that a more modern attempt at fitting current knowledge to an ancient text?).</p>
<p>Anyway, I think you have provided some excellent examples of what Dr. Shermer is talking about. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-16301</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-16301</guid>
		<description>I have nothing to offer to your challenge -- because I have never considered the Bible, or any other ancient texts for that matter, to be a scientific treatise.  However, I am somewhat intriqued by this entire exercise because of the fallacies from both sides.  

Respectfully, those who try to support their religious beliefs based on science are misled.  Of course, those who ridicule religion because of scientific inaccuracies are also misled.  Try this equation on for size.  Science does not equal religion, and religion does not equal science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have nothing to offer to your challenge &#8212; because I have never considered the Bible, or any other ancient texts for that matter, to be a scientific treatise.  However, I am somewhat intriqued by this entire exercise because of the fallacies from both sides.  </p>
<p>Respectfully, those who try to support their religious beliefs based on science are misled.  Of course, those who ridicule religion because of scientific inaccuracies are also misled.  Try this equation on for size.  Science does not equal religion, and religion does not equal science.</p>
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		<title>By: Tasdeeq</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-2367</link>
		<dc:creator>Tasdeeq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-2367</guid>
		<description>Aftereffect of Nuclear War: 

And surely, We will make all of the earth barren. [18:8] 

Surely, the tree of cactus will be the (only) food for the criminals. It will boil in (their) stomach like molten copper  ... [44:43-46] 

Scientists tell us a nuclear war will bring in dust and smoke that will cover the sky for a long period which in turn will cause extremely cold weather on earth. 

(Nuclear) hell S where they will burn S what a hopeless living place!  That&#039;s it; so let them taste a boiling fluid and (then) an intensely cold and stinking drink. [38:56-57] 

Surely, (nuclear) hell lies in ambush, a home for the dictators, who will stay there for ages with nothing cool to taste or drink, except boiling water and (then) a paralyzing cold: reward proportioned (to their crimes). [78:21-26] 

God does not punish. People reap what they sow:
On the Day when suffering will overwhelm them from above them and from beneath their feet, and it will be said: &quot;Taste the result of your actions.&quot; [29:55] 

Tasdeeq Islam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aftereffect of Nuclear War: </p>
<p>And surely, We will make all of the earth barren. [18:8] </p>
<p>Surely, the tree of cactus will be the (only) food for the criminals. It will boil in (their) stomach like molten copper  &#8230; [44:43-46] </p>
<p>Scientists tell us a nuclear war will bring in dust and smoke that will cover the sky for a long period which in turn will cause extremely cold weather on earth. </p>
<p>(Nuclear) hell S where they will burn S what a hopeless living place!  That&#8217;s it; so let them taste a boiling fluid and (then) an intensely cold and stinking drink. [38:56-57] </p>
<p>Surely, (nuclear) hell lies in ambush, a home for the dictators, who will stay there for ages with nothing cool to taste or drink, except boiling water and (then) a paralyzing cold: reward proportioned (to their crimes). [78:21-26] </p>
<p>God does not punish. People reap what they sow:<br />
On the Day when suffering will overwhelm them from above them and from beneath their feet, and it will be said: &#8220;Taste the result of your actions.&#8221; [29:55] </p>
<p>Tasdeeq Islam.</p>
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		<title>By: Tasdeeq</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-2005</link>
		<dc:creator>Tasdeeq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-2005</guid>
		<description>Nuclear War:

And We will let some of them to surge against others on that day, and the siren will be blown. Then We will gather them all together. [18:99] 

And on that day, We will present (nuclear) Hell face to face to atheists. [18:100] 

(How did Muhammad know that man will conquer outer space?) 
And the day when the siren will be blown, whoever is in the sky and whoever is on the earth will be terrified except him whom God will ... [27:87]

And those who refuse to believe and denounce Our Verses will be the inmates of (nuclear) Hell. [5:10] 

Verily, it (nuclear Hell) is one of the greatest disasters. A warning to people ... [74:35-36] 

(Hell is) God&#039;s kindled fire which rises beyond imagination. It will be closed in on them in (the form of) extended columns. [104:6-9] 

(They will be) in the midst of hot poisonous (toxic) gases and scalding water, and under the shadow of black smoke, neither cool nor soothing (because these capitalists) lived in luxury and persisted in major crimes in the past. [56:42-46] 

... Garments of fire will be cut out for those who refuse to believe; (and) boiling water will be poured down on their heads (whereby) their skins and inside of their bellies will be melted, and there will be maces of iron (missiles with warheads) for them. [22:19-21] 

People suffering devastating nuclear-related injuries, including loss or deforming of skin, will be able to receive new skin without using grafting techniques as we know them today. Skin grafting and cosmetic surgery will become much improved in future because of human exposure not to a single act of nuclear devastation but to a series of nuclear conflicts. We may see that while we have made tremendous advances in growing artificial human tissue, tomorrow a way will be found to grow or to regenerate new skin on the human body.

Surely, We will soon make them enter fire (war) those who refuse to believe Our instructions. As often as their skins are burnt, We will replace their skins with other (new ones), that they may taste the punishment (again and again.) ... [4:56]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nuclear War:</p>
<p>And We will let some of them to surge against others on that day, and the siren will be blown. Then We will gather them all together. [18:99] </p>
<p>And on that day, We will present (nuclear) Hell face to face to atheists. [18:100] </p>
<p>(How did Muhammad know that man will conquer outer space?)<br />
And the day when the siren will be blown, whoever is in the sky and whoever is on the earth will be terrified except him whom God will &#8230; [27:87]</p>
<p>And those who refuse to believe and denounce Our Verses will be the inmates of (nuclear) Hell. [5:10] </p>
<p>Verily, it (nuclear Hell) is one of the greatest disasters. A warning to people &#8230; [74:35-36] </p>
<p>(Hell is) God&#8217;s kindled fire which rises beyond imagination. It will be closed in on them in (the form of) extended columns. [104:6-9] </p>
<p>(They will be) in the midst of hot poisonous (toxic) gases and scalding water, and under the shadow of black smoke, neither cool nor soothing (because these capitalists) lived in luxury and persisted in major crimes in the past. [56:42-46] </p>
<p>&#8230; Garments of fire will be cut out for those who refuse to believe; (and) boiling water will be poured down on their heads (whereby) their skins and inside of their bellies will be melted, and there will be maces of iron (missiles with warheads) for them. [22:19-21] </p>
<p>People suffering devastating nuclear-related injuries, including loss or deforming of skin, will be able to receive new skin without using grafting techniques as we know them today. Skin grafting and cosmetic surgery will become much improved in future because of human exposure not to a single act of nuclear devastation but to a series of nuclear conflicts. We may see that while we have made tremendous advances in growing artificial human tissue, tomorrow a way will be found to grow or to regenerate new skin on the human body.</p>
<p>Surely, We will soon make them enter fire (war) those who refuse to believe Our instructions. As often as their skins are burnt, We will replace their skins with other (new ones), that they may taste the punishment (again and again.) &#8230; [4:56]</p>
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		<title>By: Tasdeeq</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-1847</link>
		<dc:creator>Tasdeeq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-1847</guid>
		<description>Some more Verses from the Koran:

The Big Bang:
Don’t the atheists see that the cosmos and the earth were together as one; then, We split them apart into pieces? ...  [21:30] 

Expanding universe:  
We have built the cosmos with power and We are expanding it. [51:47] 

Balanced universe: 
And He made the cosmos evolve, and then balanced (it).  [55:7] 

Earth is not stationary: 
... And He has made its night dark, and has brought forth the morn thereof; and He hurled the earth after that. ... [79:29-30] 	

Modern wars: 
Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the elephant (tank)? Did He not cause their plan to fail? And He sent upon them swarms of birds (airplanes) striking them with stamped stones (bombs) and (thus) made them like eaten-up straw? [105:1-5]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some more Verses from the Koran:</p>
<p>The Big Bang:<br />
Don’t the atheists see that the cosmos and the earth were together as one; then, We split them apart into pieces? &#8230;  [21:30] </p>
<p>Expanding universe:<br />
We have built the cosmos with power and We are expanding it. [51:47] </p>
<p>Balanced universe:<br />
And He made the cosmos evolve, and then balanced (it).  [55:7] </p>
<p>Earth is not stationary:<br />
&#8230; And He has made its night dark, and has brought forth the morn thereof; and He hurled the earth after that. &#8230; [79:29-30] 	</p>
<p>Modern wars:<br />
Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the elephant (tank)? Did He not cause their plan to fail? And He sent upon them swarms of birds (airplanes) striking them with stamped stones (bombs) and (thus) made them like eaten-up straw? [105:1-5]</p>
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		<title>By: Tasdeeq</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-1796</link>
		<dc:creator>Tasdeeq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-1796</guid>
		<description>Only a few Verses from the Koran. 

... And We made all living things from water. Why don&#039;t they believe (in evolution)? [Chapter 21 : Verse 30] 

And Allah has created every animal from water. Of them are (some) that slither, (some) walk upon two feet, and (some) go upon four (legs). Allah creates whatever He pleases. Surely, He has control on everything. [24:45]

And He is (the One) Who produced you from a single cell, that you stay at a stage (for some time) and then move to the next. No doubt, We have clearly explained Our Laws for scholars. [6:98] 

God created the universe and the earth in six days. A day could be a time period of any length:

The angels (the blind forces of nature) and the Soul (Archangels) evolve toward Him in a day equal to fifty-thousand years. [70:4]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only a few Verses from the Koran. </p>
<p>&#8230; And We made all living things from water. Why don&#8217;t they believe (in evolution)? [Chapter 21 : Verse 30] </p>
<p>And Allah has created every animal from water. Of them are (some) that slither, (some) walk upon two feet, and (some) go upon four (legs). Allah creates whatever He pleases. Surely, He has control on everything. [24:45]</p>
<p>And He is (the One) Who produced you from a single cell, that you stay at a stage (for some time) and then move to the next. No doubt, We have clearly explained Our Laws for scholars. [6:98] </p>
<p>God created the universe and the earth in six days. A day could be a time period of any length:</p>
<p>The angels (the blind forces of nature) and the Soul (Archangels) evolve toward Him in a day equal to fifty-thousand years. [70:4]</p>
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		<title>By: siby</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-1511</link>
		<dc:creator>siby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-1511</guid>
		<description>Great attempt by michael shermer, and what a challenge. very anxious
to have his replay to the comments. Siby- Kerala,India</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great attempt by michael shermer, and what a challenge. very anxious<br />
to have his replay to the comments. Siby- Kerala,India</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Melkor</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-1478</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Melkor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-1478</guid>
		<description>Regarding the Pythagoreans:  They also suppressed general knowledge of the dodecahedron, among the five so-called perfect solids...the other four representing the traditional four elements Earth, Air, Fire and Water.  The dodecahedron, a twelve-sided figure whose faces are pentagons, and their suppression of it show clear pre-knowledge of the Bruce Willis movie &quot;The Fifth Element&quot; and the fact that it was not something that should be revealed to the general public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the Pythagoreans:  They also suppressed general knowledge of the dodecahedron, among the five so-called perfect solids&#8230;the other four representing the traditional four elements Earth, Air, Fire and Water.  The dodecahedron, a twelve-sided figure whose faces are pentagons, and their suppression of it show clear pre-knowledge of the Bruce Willis movie &#8220;The Fifth Element&#8221; and the fact that it was not something that should be revealed to the general public.</p>
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		<title>By: papu</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-1452</link>
		<dc:creator>papu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-1452</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a physician and in my daily work I sometimes encounter incarcerated criminals and parolled addicts and the like. Its amazing how the stream of bull regarding feigned innocence, substance abuse despite conflicting blood tests, and alleged framing resembles the creativity and evasive logic of the religious faithful when &quot;interpreting&quot; their various ancient texts. Certainly, the frustration I feel when dealing with either group is identical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a physician and in my daily work I sometimes encounter incarcerated criminals and parolled addicts and the like. Its amazing how the stream of bull regarding feigned innocence, substance abuse despite conflicting blood tests, and alleged framing resembles the creativity and evasive logic of the religious faithful when &#8220;interpreting&#8221; their various ancient texts. Certainly, the frustration I feel when dealing with either group is identical.</p>
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		<title>By: KD Mann</title>
		<link>http://skepticblog.org/2008/11/25/modern-patternicity-in-ancient-wisdom/#comment-1418</link>
		<dc:creator>KD Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=493#comment-1418</guid>
		<description>&quot;In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with G-d and the Word WAS G-d.&quot;

In other words, what some call &quot;God&quot; was in reality an &quot;information structure&quot; -- I&#039;m sure you know that when Jews refer to &quot;The Word&quot; they are referrring to the single, long, 200,000 letter &quot;string&quot; called the Torah.

I&#039;m sure you&#039;re probably also aware that modern physics is rapidly converging on the idea that the universe is not made up of &quot;matter&quot; and energy, but instead is made up of information.

Re-read the creation account in Genesis 1, using the &#039;definition of God&#039; from John 1:1, and you may notice that every act of creation was actually a &#039;first arrangement&#039; of information. for example, light came about at the very instant that the primordial information &quot;string&quot; (call it the &#039;DNA&#039; of light) was organized.

(as an interesting aside, ancient Hebrew traditions reportedly hold that it was only later that humans devised a written language around the original &#039;torah string&#039; and the pronunciation rules that allowed humans to &#039;read&#039; the string as &quot;Let there be light.&quot;

The late John Archibald Wheeler and many other prominent physicists have for many years now believed in Wheeler&#039;s &quot;IT from BIT&quot; proposition, in which matter and the entire physical universe -- even the three dimensions we observe are mere incidentals, and the universe is in reality an information structure, a &quot;word&quot;.

So...there&#039;s my nomination -- the first chapter of the book of John defines &quot;God&quot; as an information structure as opposed to a &quot;person&quot;, and John 1 can be summarized as the scientific principle &quot;IT from BIT&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with G-d and the Word WAS G-d.&#8221;</p>
<p>In other words, what some call &#8220;God&#8221; was in reality an &#8220;information structure&#8221; &#8212; I&#8217;m sure you know that when Jews refer to &#8220;The Word&#8221; they are referrring to the single, long, 200,000 letter &#8220;string&#8221; called the Torah.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re probably also aware that modern physics is rapidly converging on the idea that the universe is not made up of &#8220;matter&#8221; and energy, but instead is made up of information.</p>
<p>Re-read the creation account in Genesis 1, using the &#8216;definition of God&#8217; from John 1:1, and you may notice that every act of creation was actually a &#8216;first arrangement&#8217; of information. for example, light came about at the very instant that the primordial information &#8220;string&#8221; (call it the &#8216;DNA&#8217; of light) was organized.</p>
<p>(as an interesting aside, ancient Hebrew traditions reportedly hold that it was only later that humans devised a written language around the original &#8216;torah string&#8217; and the pronunciation rules that allowed humans to &#8216;read&#8217; the string as &#8220;Let there be light.&#8221;</p>
<p>The late John Archibald Wheeler and many other prominent physicists have for many years now believed in Wheeler&#8217;s &#8220;IT from BIT&#8221; proposition, in which matter and the entire physical universe &#8212; even the three dimensions we observe are mere incidentals, and the universe is in reality an information structure, a &#8220;word&#8221;.</p>
<p>So&#8230;there&#8217;s my nomination &#8212; the first chapter of the book of John defines &#8220;God&#8221; as an information structure as opposed to a &#8220;person&#8221;, and John 1 can be summarized as the scientific principle &#8220;IT from BIT&#8221;.</p>
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